Very interesting and true article ziggystyles-

They have taken the original wording of the Bible, and twisted it to support their own belief.

It is more apparent every day.... we see things not as they are, but as WE are. We want the Word of God to be palatable to our likening.

Well I got flames left and right from people about how I shouldnt be teaching certain things in school...blah blah blah.

I can almost assure you, you will get more derogatory replies about this article.

God Bless and keep the faith!
preacherman

I know I will...nice to have a positive feedback on here...thanks Preacherman!

Now that I think about it...we twist many things in our modern world to fit our likes. For example...stop lights. A yellow light means slow down and prepare to stop....many people think it means "Slam on the flippin gas and get through the intersection!"

we twist many things in our modern world to fit our likes

But when the church does this with the Word of God- it can have eternal consequences.

preacherman

If you started a barbeque...and had a whole bunch of charcoal in a pile and lit it....it would stay pretty warm and toasty for quite a while. If you took one coal and lit it and put it by itself...it would die out fairly quickly. We are like the coals and need to be around a church body, for spiritual strength and growth

Ziggy, that's a good insight. What are your views on other religious faiths? I know some deeply spiritual and committed Muslims with a hearty Mosque community, and they too could fit into a similar barbeque analogy. I believe that the religious tradition which people feel inclined to follow depends on where they were born. Does God's love for His children transcend the narrow religious/political attitudes of man?

There is a church, I think with the name of Metropolitan community church, that supports homosexuality

Up here, the United Church of Canada also supports homosexuality and argued at the Supreme Court of Canada to have it legalized.

AndyBaker,
I generally try and keep my views to myself when it comes to other religious faiths. Mainly I do that because I dont know other those other faiths that well...but I have done a rather fair amount of reading and taken a class in world religions...which doesnt really mean anything I guess....views are views.

Anywho...what are my views. Well I am a Christian...born Catholic, raised Catholic and Lutheran...ended up going to a Pentacostal church where I have since then said....that is where I became a Christian...not in the other two previous churches.

Catholicism...hmmm. Some have said it borders on cult status...I dont think so...but man....its not really going away from that area. I could go on and on about the Catholic church (hmmm....new article idea)...but I wont. I disagree with how the priests have to live, the role of Mary, the lack of Bibles in the church, the apocriphia (sp), prayers, confessions, the vatican (yeah like how much money goes there....think a little bit? uh no)...etc. I have told people before that if I stayed in that Church...I would not have gone to heaven if I died.

The Lutheran Church is better...although whenever I enter one...it reminds me of a Catholic church....this is probably because of the whole Martin Luther thing...They still wear robes, prayers, sing the same kind of songs. They dont believe in confessions to the priests or praying to Mary. I dont mind going to a Lutheran church...this is where Marcie and I go when we are back at my hometown.

Pentacostal...now this is what I believe. Spirit-filled is what I call it. Some pentacostal churches freak even me out. But I believe in the power of the word of God. I believe that one needs to have a personal relationship with the Guy upstairs. They take the Bible...and you bring your own...or use the ones they have (NIV or KJ)...and go through it with you. Its really different from other churches. They believe in the holy spirit coming down and consuming you with its presence...hence you speak in tongues. Kinda neat if you have never seen it before. Makes people uncomfy to see it sometimes if they dont know what it is about. They believe in prayer for healing. They believe God can pinpoint people in the church who need prayer.....this happened to me actually a while back....pastor was preaching....stopped and said he needed to pray for three people....wanted everyone to lower their heads and have those three raise their hands....he then described the people...the things he was describing were all things I was going through at the time....two people raised my hand....so he then went into even more and more and more specific detail to the point where I knew he was talking about me specifically. He wasnt really talking about me...he didnt know who i was....he was just taking directions. God gives pastors a sense...sort of like the sense we have when we know something isnt right....they have that sense....they need to pray for people who are suffering from this or that. My hometown church has had miracle services in the past...which I dont necessarily support...but things happened to people which doctors couldnt take care of...this was documented stuff.

Since Marcie and I have been going out...we have attended both Methodist and Baptist Churches. Methodists are, to me, a combo of like Lutherans and Baptists. More laid back...a few prayers, they read out of the Bible and you arent out of place if you bring your own.

The Baptist church...is more...hmmm. Well the more I talk about the different Christian faiths out there...the harder it is to seperate them from each other. It depends which Baptist church you go to. Marcie and I went to one in Fargo, and we felt totally out of place...welcomed...but out of place and alone. All the girls where wearing dresses. All the guys were wearing sport coats...and this was an evening service. They publicly shot down one of their own pastors because of his sins, and when people talked to us...they only talked to me, and didnt even acknowledge Marcies presence. I would never be a member of a southern baptist convention church.

The baptist church we attend in Detroit Lakes is much better. People welcome you left and right...they say hi if they dont recognize you...the service is great. In alot of ways...Baptists are like the grandparents of Pentacostals....meaning...they are like pentacostals in a way...just not as deep into the same things, and not as energetic. Pentacostals are like little kids....lots of jumping around...they go deep into topics, and full of energy with their praise and worship.

I stay with the pentacostal faith becauase thats where I feel most at home. I feel welcome there wherever I go...and just everything about it fits me and I dont have a doubt or problem with any part of the church.

Anywho....your question was related to the other faiths more than the Christian faith....so I digress.

Obviously many other faiths have views similar to the Christian faith...but I believe that you have to believe in what the Bible teaches, and that you need to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

There are some out there that I dont really think match that closely to the Christian faith...even though they claim to be Christians...such as Seventh Day adventists, mormons...Jehovahs witnesses....etc. But at the same time....I like the amount of dedication some of those other religions have. Jehovahs witnesses are the only faith that I know of, that goes door to door with their message, albiet a wrong message...but they believe in it soooo firmly and have such a passion for it, that they bother people left and right...hoping to touch at least one person with their message and change a life. Mormons have a strong sense of family, and some of the strongest families there can be. Muslims around the world...stop five times a day to face Mecca, and pray. How many of us pray five times a week?

I think the religion people follow...that depends. In some parts of the world...if you are born a Christian....you will be killed. People hate Christians left and right. Here in America...I think you can chose what you believe....but in other parts of the world....you might not really have a choice, and sort of grow into it....unless you go somewhere else and move out of the area.

Gods love is more powerful than anything imaginable...but if you do not believe that he did what he did...and chose not to follow Him and his ways, then obviously that is going to be a problem. I believe in God and that there are no other Gods. I dont believe God will let people into his kingdom who did not accept him as their savior.

Sounds selfish...but would you let a stranger who you do not know, into your house?

Sounds selfish...but would you let a stranger who you do not know, into your house?

If I were omnipotent as God, and knew the intention of that persons' heart. And if I were as loving and forgiving as God, and if my house had many doors, then yes. All are welcome in this house.

Ig

God is omnipotent...not stupid. He gives you a choice...free will. He lets you do what you want...if you choose not to follow him and his ways...then that is your choice. God is loving, and forgiving...as long as you seek his love and forgiveness, and live according to his Word...but hes not going to let you in...just because he is a "nice guy."

You and I know perfectly well, that you would not let a stranger into your house to live there. It doesnt matter how many doors heaven has...you are only going through one...and the Big guy is going to be there, at the right hand of his father. He is goign to say to his dad..."Hey...I know this guy...he listened to what I said...changed his life, repented of his sins, asked for forgiveness of them, and seeked my truth and will in his life....let him in" or he is going to say "Hey, I know this guy...he thought he could get in here because you are loving and forgiving and because he went to church every once in a while when his wife made him"

What if you follow his ways, but not him?

IG

Sounds good to man, but God set it up a different way.

What if you follow his ways, but not him?

It not His ways you must follow- it is The Way.... Jesus Christ "I am the way the truth and the life" Eternal life apart for Christ is going to be most miserable.

preacherman

Ok, but if Jesus set the path, isn't possible, in your belief theology, for a person to walk the path to the destination even though they may not know who set the path in the first place?

Ig

I believe in the power of the word of God. I believe that one needs to have a personal relationship with the Guy upstairs

Ziggy, I agree. JC is a Righteous Dude, and He's always there for us.

Sounds selfish...but would you let a stranger who you do not know, into your house? ... He is goign to say to his dad "Hey...I know this guy...he listened to what I said...changed his life, repented of his sins, asked for forgiveness of them, and seeked my truth and will in his life....let him in" or he is going to say "Hey, I know this guy...he thought he could get in here because you are loving and forgiving and because he went to church every once in a while when his wife made him"

That's fair enough, but we shouldn't forget what JC said in Matthew 25.35: “I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes. … Whenever you did this for one of the least important of these followers of mine, you did it for me … Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world”

The Epistle of John said that "God is love" (1 John 4.16). I think it's all part of our search or journey to discover what love actually is.

Sounds selfish...but would you let a stranger who you do not know, into your house?

Duh

What do you think happened to Jesus over and over and over......?

If Jesus did have his own home somewhere and a stranger rocked up at his door asking for food and a roof over his head for the night, I reckon odds are that Jesus would have invited him right in......

You see, Jesus loved, Jesus trusted in the will of God, Jesus forgave and so anyone would be welcome in His home....

Good post. I am a Christian and I have chosen the Catholic church as the place where I worship. The Word of God means so much to me as does the Eucharist.

If you do a careful reading of Luke's story of the two disciples on the road to Emmaus your will find some great lessons on the power of the Word as it is meant to be applied to our live. It also contains the same Eucharistic gestures as Jesus offered at the Last Supper.

These thoughts are taken from a marvelous book called, "Making the Most of the Eucharist" by Frank Anderson

Journey to Emmaus – A Eucharistic Model

For these two disciples, walking from Jerusalem to Emmaus, the wilderness of their lives was a reality. They had built their hopes and dreams on Jesus – now he was dead. Shattered and disillusioned, they were leaving Jerusalem, but were deeply engaged with each other in trying to fathom the meaning of it all:

... and they were talking together about all that had happened ... their faces downcast.
(Luke 24:14, 17)

What they were struggling with (and faithfully doing so) was the mystery of Jesus' life. What had it all meant? And what were the implications for themselves?

Our own hope had been that he would be the one to set Israel free. (Luke 24:21)

On joining them, Jesus simply takes them more carefully into the scriptures to see what bearing the Word of God might have on their present circumstance. He does no more than engage their lives with the Word. The enlightenment of the scriptures does have a profound impact on them, but we are only told about it later in the story:

Did not our hearts burn within us as he talked to us on the road and explained the scriptures to us? (Luke 24:32) -

Jesus anoints their lives with the scriptures and they begin to see clearly again. Their experience of themselves-and of their predicament-changed dramatically. No longer "downcast," no longer so caught up in their own problems as to be unable to "recognize him," they now become capable of an unexpectedly gracious act of hesed (That God-like outpouring of love that enables them open themselves to this stranger) and emet (That faithful, trustworthy, unfailing love that enables them to offer hospitality to this stranger) on nearing their destination:

When they drew near to the village ... he made as if to go on; but they pressed him to stay with them saying, "It is nearly evening, and the day is almost over." So he went in to stay with them. (Luke 24:28-29)

The story depicts Jesus as a total stranger, yet one who had shared with them an engagement with the Word of God. It was already late in the day. In an earlier Gospel story, Luke comments:

It was late afternoon when the Twelve came up to him and said, "Send the people away, and they can go to the villages and farms round about to find lodging and food (Luke 9:12-17)



This miracle story of the feeding of the crowds is common to Mark, Matthew, and John. The others all mention the crowd's need for food, but Luke is the only evangelist to include the need for lodging as well. Now here, in the Emmaus story, lodging for the night becomes an issue: "they pressed him to stay with them." One could conjecture that in Luke's mind these two searching disciples were unknowingly living out the very essence of that earlier eucharistic story, the feeding of the crowds.

Given that Luke is fascinated by the theme that life is a journey for us all, the prominence he gives to hospitality in these twinned stories is most significant: hesed and emet for travelers.

The Emmaus story climaxes with Jesus doing the eucharistic gesture. Luke employs four key eucharistic verbs-the same verbs used in the Last Supper story.
... he took the bread and said the blessing; then he broke it and handed it to them. (Luke 24:30)

The Emmaus story tells us that, startled by this so Jesus-like gesture, they recognized him. Then, fresh with insight and new energy, they return immediately to Jerusalem to share with their struggling community:

There are eucharistic lessons in this for all our assembling communities, lessons about gathering and welcoming and the sharing of our lives "on the road."

The story itself is a carefully crafted interplay (1) of Word, (2) of action in response to the Word, and (3) of a ritual of bread and wine that summarizes it all: one story with three interwoven components. Our Sunday ritual is crafted along similar lines:

1. An engagement of the Word with our lives.

2. The following action of offering hospitality (prayers of the faithful and the bringing of gifts).

3. The ritualizing of that gracious mentality when we (like Jesus) "take bread (our commitment to inclusive love), thank God for it, break it, and give it."

Just as in the Emmaus story, the Sunday experience stands or falls on the strength with which the Word of God engages our real lives. In the wilderness of their circumstance, these two honest disciples “meet God” in a new way by daring with a stranger an honest and persist conversation. The warmth of their subsequent hospitality, the change of heart in them to sense the stranger's need for lodging, was dependent entirely on their readiness to be vulnerable (open) to the scriptures. Within the hospitality of their scriptural discussion along the road, their hearts became companionable and community was being forged. Their subsequent offer of hospitality and food was but a natural extension to that sharing of the Word. It was the Word that turned them around, the Word that changed them.

It is the same with the Eucharist today: to the extent that we work the Word of God into our hearts in a mutual, honest and respectful sharing of its implications for our lives, to that extent will we become community in Christ. Central and crucial to the meaning of Eucharist – in any community – is that community’s engagement with the Word of God.

Only the Word of God can build Christian community. That crucial turning-around of the human heart, so necessary for true community to happen, can be achieved only by allowing the Word to dissolve the barriers of the mind. Unless I submit my defenses to the assault of God’s Word, then I am not willingly open to repentance, conversion and growth. Without such personal submission, community cannot grow. Conversion of hearts and minds, a conversion that is personal, continuous, and conscious, is proof that the Word is “alive and active” in any community.

We, the Body of Christ, have learned (1) like Mary, to ponder the Scripture in our hearts and (2) like the two disciples of Emmaus, to build community faith by probing together the Word’s application to our lives and times. Remember how they first shared the scriptures with a stranger (Jesus = a lively engagement) and then found themselves prompted to invite him for a meal as evening fell. Like the old covenant at Sinai, with its story of journey, wilderness and of meeting God, so is the new covenant of Jesus presented by Luke. Emmaus describes an Exodus journey – a portrait of yet another Passover – but told now in terms more easily recognizable for communities whose lives are based on the Eucharist of Jesus.

Ok, but if Jesus set the path, isn't possible, in your belief theology, for a person to walk the path to the destination even though they may not know who set the path in the first place?

No. I think I know what you are saying...you are asking "what if a person leads a christian life, but does not follow Christ." How can a person lead a christian life and not be a Christian? Being a Christian is not just simply saying "well Im sure as heck not a islamic weirdo...so Im a Christian" I mean...ask your dog and he will probably say he is a Christian. Many people say they belong to a certain faith...not all of them are truly dedicated to that faith. Being a true Christian is knowing who God is, because you have heard the message, and have realized you were wrong and needed God in your life to turn you around....confessed of your sins and strived to live a Christian life, at the same time...striving to have a daily relationship with Christ.

There is one path...we are all on it...its called Death. What happens afterwards is a result of the choices we made here on earth.

but we shouldn't forget what JC said in Matthew 25.35: “I was hungry and you fed me, thirsty and you gave me a drink; I was a stranger and you received me in your homes. … Whenever you did this for one of the least important of these followers of mine, you did it for me … Come and possess the kingdom which has been prepared for you ever since the creation of the world”The Epistle of John said that "God is love" (1 John 4.16). I think it's all part of our search or journey to discover what love actually is.

Jesus was a carpenter. He wasn't necessarily poor, but he walked around all over the place spreading his message. While doing this, he stopped at peoples homes and was invited in for the night. The people that KNEW Him, that had heard of Him, LET Him in!. For a Night! If Jesus was a complete and total drunk, a druggie, tax collector, or anything else...I have a hard time thinking those people would let him in. The Kingdom of God...Heaven...oh yeah....you can believe its been prepared for you since the creation of the world...becaus that is where you are supposed to be! God Created you! He wants you to come back home. But he gave you a choice, to follow him and to know him....or to ignore him.

Love....oh for Petes sake. "God loves us all, so therefore he will let us all into heaven." Im going to ask another "what if" thing here. What if you were God....would you let anyone in...who spent their whole life ignoring you...shooting you down, cursing you time after time, blaming you for everything, denying you...etc the list goes on....you would let someone in? "yes because God is love, and if I was God...Id be all Lovey and let everyone in....lets have a party!" God gives us all something...called free will. God can't make us love him...well technically he could...but that wouldnt be our own desire. He wants us to choose for ourselves where we want to end up, and not just let people in because he is a nice guy. That and the fact that, there is not one point in the Bible that says he will let people in because he loves them.

You see, Jesus loved, Jesus trusted in the will of God, Jesus forgave and so anyone would be welcome in His home....

Exactly right....Jesus himself prayed to God and kept a relationship with Him. Jesus trusted in the will of God...meaning the plan that God had for Jesus. On the Cross, Jesus again prayed for others, asking for forgiveness...why would he do that for if God was going to let everyone into heaven because God was all Love? Where are you getting this stuff in the bible that says everyone is going to heaven because God is love?

Oleteach....Great post. One of the reasons I left the Catholic church...was from what I learned about Christ at other churches. When I started going to pentacostal churches, I realized that they werent teaching me what I needed to know. I needed...like you mentioned...to read the scripture, submit my life to Christ, want to turn my life aroudn, start a personal relationship with him.....etc. This was never even lightly mentioned to me before and I felt a brand new life take over when this happened. Glad to know there are some out there who do know the truth of Christ.